>> chris: i'm chris wallace, and this is "fox news sunday." they target military funerals, saying the deaths of u.s. service men are the will of god. the supreme court decides that it's protected free speech. we talk to the leader of westboro baptist church, margie phelps, about the case and actions one supreme court justice calls cool. then a partial government shutdown is avoided for now, as all sides try to reach a

deal to cut spending and keep the government running. we discuss the key issue with two leaders, the democrat number two man in the senator, dick durbin, and jeb hensarling, chairman of the house republican conference. plus, the 2012 g.o.p. field begins to take shape. we ask our sunday panel about newt gingrich's semi-announcement and where he stands in the republican contest. and our power player of the week runs one of the first programs to face the budget axe. all right now on "fox news sunday." and hello again from fox news in washington. the supreme court ruled this week that no matter how hateful speech in public places on public issues is protected by the constitution. before we talk with one of the leaders of westboro baptist church, fox news correspondent james rosen tells how we got here. >> reporter: at funerals and other solemn events across the country, members of the

westboro baptist church showed up to wave patently obnoxious signs and chant protests against society that's grown too tolerant of sins. many of the parishioners are relative of founder fred phelps and while the action are widely condemned, the supreme court ruled that the protest outside the 2006 funeral of slain marine matthew snyder who was not gay, was constitutional. >> our team's reaction is thank god, praise his name. the secondary reaction is nothing has changed except this. this case put a megaphone to the mouth of this little church. >> reporter: chief justice john roberts wrote the court 8-1 opinion citing the need to protect even hurtful speech to ensure we don't stifle public debate. for albert snyder, the ruling reopened the wound of his son's death. >> we found out today that we can no longer bury our dead

in this country with dignity. >> reporter: in the dissent, justice samuel alito wrote that it doesn't provide a license for the vicious verbal assault that occurred in this case. at the supreme court, james rosen, fox news. chris? >> chris: james, thanks for that. joining us now from topeka, kansas, a margie phelps, daughter of founder of westboro baptist church, who is also the lawyer who argued the case successfully before the supreme court. miss phelps, before we talk about the case, let's talk about your church. it's not just soldiers, but your church says 9/11 and explosion of the space shuttle "columbia" were also god's will. after the shootings in tucson, you said, your church did that 9-year-old christina taylor green was better off dead and you wanted to picket her funeral. question: how does an innocent 9-year-old girl end up in this? >> well, if you study the

scriptures you would know no human is innocent and when a nation makes policies of sin that the god of eternity duels with that nation by pouring his wrath out on that nation. and every description of that kind in the scriptures expressly includes down to little seclings are caught up in that matter. we're saying to the nation they're dying for our sins and if you want it to stop, you have to repent and mourn for your sins and stop. >> chris: well, let's talk about interpreting god's will. your father, fred phelps, the founder of the church was five years old when his mother died of throat cancer. the aunt who raised him was killed in 1950 in a car crash. was the death of his mother, was the death of the aunt, was that also god's will? >> it absolutely was.

i'm quite certain knowing my father as i do that for him to do the work that he has ended up needing to do in his li life, it was absolutely needful to remove those women from the landscape. there is no question. god holds the breath of life of every human in his hand. and he has these things mapped out. and he does them according to his good will and pleasure. it's every bit as much -- >> chris: miss phelps, if i may. i wouldn't dare to interpret god's will, but isn't it possible that god was sending a warning to your father about the kind of church that he was going to establish, and in fact, god was trying to tell him not to establish that kind of church that would commit these kind of acts? >> i don't see a cause and effect there. but in point of fact, the church was established and he has been the pastor for nearly 60 years. and an amazing and marvelous work has been brought from this little church and this little body. >> chris: the dictionary

defines "a cult" this way -- a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society, under the direction of a charismatic leader. most members of your congregation are members of your extended family. many of them live in a compound along with the church in topeka, kansas. isn't westboro baptist a cult? >> well, obvious, you can imagine you're not the first person to make that suggestion, and my dad would probably laugh at the notion that he's charismatic. what he is god-fearing. we live mainstream. we're in your schools, in your job and every day a testimony. at the end of the day, call us a cult, call us anything. just publish the words. at this point, all of that name-calling has become white noise, as the entire world looks over at this message. and, in fact, this case put a megaphone to the mouth of

this church. >> chris: you talk about your father as god-fearing. your father had 13 children. two of your brothers, nate and mark, say that your father abused your mother and abused you kids. they describe savage beatings and violent outbursts. in fact, one of your brothers, mark, said this -- "we had to watch out for this madman." >> well, mark always had an overactive imagination. both of them have been gone for decades. all of my parents' children who went to serve god, which is actually nine of the 13, not 11 of the 13, but nine of the 13 commune with him and my mom daily and they are wonderful people. they taught us the truth about what the bible says. you don't see that anymore. they stand uniquely, they are the only two of their generation in this world that i have seen that are actually

a testimony to what the bible says and to the cause of god and truth. and we're very thankful to have them. very thankful. >> chris: let's turn to the supreme court's ruling this week. and i want to put up on the screen your reaction to it. you said this is not my victory, this is god's victory. there is no shutting up the church of the lord jesus christ. >> right. >> chris: is the ruling by the supreme court this week god's will? >> of course, it was, or it wouldn't have happened. he holds the heart of the team in his hand. he put us on the battlefield. he told to us go tell the nation that your soldiers are dying for your sins and you've got to stop sinning if you want that mayhem to end. he would not have done that and then left us to the devices of mankind unable to complete that good work. so, of course, it's his good will. we're thankful and we praise his name for it. >> chris: then miss phelps, how do you explain another supreme court ruling in 2003

in lawrence v. texas, the court ruled by a margin of 6-3, that a law prohibiting sexual acts between same-sex couples was unconstitutional. they said there was right of privacy for consensual same-sex couples. is that also god's will? >> no, in fact, it's a curse from god. in fact, we picketed outside the supreme court the day they were having those arguments. and i recall specifically my dad and i being there and my brothers and we told that crowd waiting out there, yea, yea all ye having business before this court, bend over. it's sad that the supreme court is the conscience of this nation. and on that day, this nation, when they issued that opinion, this nation crossed a line of no return with the lord good almighty. >> chris: if i may, ma'am, you're the arbiter of when it's god's will and when it's

god's curse. >> we're not the arbiter, mr. wallace. we can just read plain words. and we know that the scriptures are full of passages when a nation has crossed the line with policies of sin, that one of the ways god curses that nation is by sending them leaders who are immoral. that's what has happened in this nation. and every one of its -- >> chris: if i may, ma'am, are the nine justices on the supreme court, are the nine justices going to hell? >> i have no objective indicator otherwise. the default for mankind is hell. unless you bring forth fruits, meet for repentance, the assumption is you will end up in hell when you quit your life on this earth. there is a duty of every human to bring forth fruit, meet for repentance. i have seen no evidence of that. in a single leader in this nation. >> chris: so, the justices

are going to hell, the president is going to hell? >> absolutely on the president. that's a big 10-4. i already answered on the justices. the president is going to be king of the world before this is all said and done and he is most likely the beast spoken of in the revelation. >> chris: several retired air force generals are now seeking to have ten lawyers. i don't know, frankly, i assume you are one of them disbarred, they say because of your failure to maintain professional standards. >> they -- >> chris: if i may is ask the question, then i'll give you a chance to answer. they cite the decade long pattern of uncivil and unprofessional conduct. go ahead. >> the complaint was dismissed, they never mailed it to us it was dismissed so quickly. they included in the complaint the brief i filed with the supreme court and

various religion publications. it was falling from the beginning. check this out, the pentagon declared war on this little church. when they did that, they declared war on god almighty. they have epic failed to use their language and use their belly badass term it's tango down. they are not going to win this fight that they have brought. >> chris: miss phelps, i have a minute left. i have one more question to ask you and less than a minute left. some of your signs say "thank god for dead soldiers." do you see no moral difference between a fallen american service man and the al-qaeda terrorist he is fighting who is slaughtering innocent people for jihad? do you see any moral difference between the american soldier and the al-qaeda terrorist? >> yes, there is a difference. the american soldier is worse, because he pretends

that he is fighting for liberty and a christian nation. and there is not a bigger lie on the face of this earth today. those soldiers are fighting for same-sex marriage and all the lesser included sins. there is not an ounce of nobility in the military in this day. >> chris: that apparently is worse than slaughtering innocents. miss phelps, thank you for talking to us today, ma'am. up next, two congressional leaders in the fight to cut federal spending to keep the government in business.

impact wool exports from new zealand, textile production in spain, and the use of medical technology in the u.s.? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 80% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing.

>> chris: congress passed a compromise this week to keep the government coming for two more weeks. but the threat of a partial shutdown is still there. and so are the major differences between the two parties. so what happens now? for answers we turn to the senate's number two democrdemocrat dick durbin who comes to us from chicago and the head of the house republican conference jeb hensarling who joins us from dallas. gentlemen, joe biden held talk with republican leaders this week. republicans want total of $61 billion in actual spending cuts. democrats are offering at this point, $10.5 billion in actual spending cuts. senator durbin, start with you. where do the talks stand and where democrats willing to agree to more cuts? >> well, i can tell you that we're going to have a vote. i think we have to

demonstrate to the house republicans and to speaker boehner what will happen to their proposal when it comes to the senate. and my guess is it will not come close to passage. it's an indication that we need to get serious, sit down and not lurch from one week to two weeks in funding our government. we need to try to reach an agreement on a bipartisan basis. i hope after the vote in the senate, that will happen. >> chris: all right, congressman hensarling, same question. where do the talks stand? and are republicans willing to agree to less than $61 billion in cuts? >> first, chris, as you know, we wouldn't in this place in the first place if the previous democratic congress taken care of their business, passed a budget, passed a spending bill. that's the first time since i believe 1974 that the house hasn't even passed a budget. that is point number one. point number two, if we are going to help create more jobs in america, if we're going to help save our children from bankruptcy,

we've got to take america off this fiscally irresponsible path. that we're borrowing almost 40 cents on the dollar. much of it from the chinese. and sending the bill to our children and grandchildren. so house republicans put forth a proposal that would keep the government open, the senate frankly has had plenty of time to consider it. they wanted more time so we gave them two more weeks, but i hope they would join us. i agree with dick, i hope we can work on a bipartisan nation to put the nation on fiscally sustainable path. >> chris: let me break in, if i may. i might note in my answer to the question neither of you said democrats, whether you're willing to accept more cuts, republicans, whether you are willing to accept more cuts. you keep talking about meeting the republicans halfway. let's watch. >> democrats ready to meet the republicans halfway on this, that would be fair. >> my administration has already put forward specific cuts that meet congressional

republicans halfway. >> chris: but several major news organizations say that talk about meeting the republicans halfway is a phony. to get there, you claim $41 billion in cuts from president obama's budget, which was never passed so you're not actually cutting anything. let's take a look at the real numbers. republicans want $61 billion in actual cuts from current spending. between the extension you passed last week and the next one, you are offering $10 billion in actual cuts, $10.5 billion in actual cuts. "associated press" says they're meeting the g.o.p. one-sixth of the way, not halfway at all. your response? >> let me say this, we can talk about numbers and i'm willing to, but let's get down to the bottom. the bottom line is this, if we went ahead with the house republican budget and decided to cut education the way they

want to cut it, take the money out of head start, put hundreds of thousands of poor kids out of the program and dismiss ten or 20,000 teachers and staff, if we want to cut the pel grants and force young people from family of limited means to leave college, if we want to cut research, medical research at the national institute of health, which is what they propose and if we want to cut one-third of the staff at the aragon national laboratory and laboratories around the united states, if we want to cut the infrastructure, putting people to -- >> chris: i get the idea -- >> let me finish. >> chris: if i may, i'll ask congressman hensarling about it but i want to ask about your own actions. democrats are proposing -- put it on the screen -- $10.5 billion in real cuts from current spending. that is from total spending of $3.7 trillion. senator durbin, that represents a cut of .28%. that is less than one-third of 1%. is that really the best the

democrats can do? >> chris, if i could finish my answer. >> chris: i ask you if .28% the best the democrats can do? >> the house republican budget -->> i'm asking you about your funding. >> may i answer? >> chris: i'm asking you to answer my question: is that the best democrats can do? >> i'm going to finish one way or the other here, chris. the house republican budget takes all of its cuts out of 12% of our budget. jeb hensarling and i sat on the commission, an honest commission that said we need to put everything on the table. you can't balance the budget of america by cutting education, research and innovation, and basic -- >> chris: are you willing to accept more cuts in discretionary spending, sir? >> it can't be done. if you believe you'll balance the budget by cutting, 12% of the budget it's literally, figuratively impossible. if you want bragging rights for who can cut the most out of education, i'm --

>> chris: i get it. you didn't answer the question, sir. i gave you a chance to answer and you didn't answer it. congressman hensarling, let me try again with you. let's look at some of the g.o.p.'s proposed cuts that senator durbin keeps talking about. $2 billion from jobs training in the middle of a weak recovery. $1.6 billion for the national institutes of health. $600 million from border security and immigration enforcement. really? cuts in job training and border security? >> well, a couple of things, chris. number one, at some point you have to quit spending money that you don't have. we just have come off the first trillion dollar deficit. the second trillion dollar deficit now under president obama and the democrats, the single largest deficit in america's history. dick says everything has to be on the table, but under their plan, nothing is on the table. now here is what we have done as house republicans. we know that the best housing program, the best education program, the best nutrition program is a job.

there's still millions of our fellow americans who are out of work due to the economic policies of his parties, president obama. you talk to job creators and they tell you one thing that concerns them most is the debt. high levels of undebtedness will lead to high level of taxation, which lead to high level of unemployment. if you want people to have paychecks instead of government check we have to put the nation on fiscally sustainable course. when dick talks about, or accuses us of draconian cuts this is 2.5%, roughly, of the entire federal budget. they are willing to do nothing. again -- >> let me break -- congressmen, congress -- let me break in. one of the point that senator durbin made and a lot of people say this is the problem you are focussing on 15% of the budget, non-defense, discretionary spending and you are ignoring

all the big money in entitlements. speaker of the house john boehner spoke to the "wall street journal" this week. and he said, this is their paraphrase, the budget is likely to contain cost containment goals for entitlements. but no specific ideas on how to achieve them. congressman hensarling is that the best republicans can do? containment goals but no specific plans? >> what i'd like to do is work with democrats to reform current entitlement programs for future generations. grant fathering all the grandparent -- grandfathering all the grandparents. we for appointees for the fiscal responsibility committee. i hope he agrees if you are ever going to put america on fiscally sustainable path where we don't destroy the american dream for our children to give them less opportunity than e've had, this has to be addressed. republicans have already done this. paul ryan in wisconsin

putting forth his particular plan, which i have co-sponsored. roadmap for america's future. yet, we have a president who has not led. we only have one president and all he presents us is trillions of dollars of more debt. >> chris: let me ask about that, senator durbin. in his new budget, the president in fact ignores the debt commission that both you and jeb hensarling were a part of and offers no entitlement savings. is that presidential leadership? >> i'm still here, chris. i can just tell you when it came to the deficit commission, i was proud to vote for it, though i disagreed with some of the particulars. not a single house republican voted for the deficit commission report. including jeb and paul ryan and dave camp from the house ways and means committee. what we believe is you can't cut your way out of our crisis, you can't tax your way out of our crisis. you have to deal with this, in his entirety and you have to think our way out of it. we have to come up with the

kind of answers that show both sides are willing to give. one point to make to you, we're continuing the work of the deficit commission on a bipartisan basis. there are six senators sitting down. three democrats and three republicans. they really represent the whole spectrum. we are trying to come up with a comprehensive way to do it. not about the bragging rights for six or seven months but whether we can have a sensible way to bring us down to the point that jeb and i agree on. >> we have a couple of minutes left and i'll try again with a question i asked at the beginning, which i didn't get an answer to frankly, from either of you. congressman hensarling, as part of the house g.o.p. leadership, you not only have to deal with the democrats, you have to deal with your tea party freshmen. if you come back to them with a compromise as a result of the budget talks, compromise of less than $61 billion in cuts this year, will they support it and will you support it? >> all i can say is here is

what we're going to fight for. i'm not going to negotiate this on national television today. we're going to fight for again putting america on a fiscally sustainable path to help create jobs today, save the children from bankruptcy tomorrow. unfortunately, we well know, republicans only control one of three levers of law-making. democrats have the senate, the democrats have the white house. nobody wants to shut down the government. but one thing is non-negotiable, as the speaker said. we will not pass bills that don't create savings for the american people, create confidence for american job creators so we can start creating more jobs in the economy. that simple. >> chris: senator durbin, in the time we have less, less than a minute, we'll try again with you. you are at this point, $10.5 billion. the white house and senate democrats. are you willing to accept more in cuts than $10.5 billion? >> i can tell you personally i'm willing to see more deficit reduction but not out

of domestic discretionary spending. when you are cutting education, innovation and infrastructure, you're not dealing with the reality of this recession. paul xandy told us we'd have people out of work because of the deficit. >> chris: you're saying $10.5 billion in domestic, non-defense discretionary spending, that's it? >> i think we pushed this to the limit. to go any further is to push more kids out of school, to stifle innovation, which small businesses and large alike need to create more jobs. stops investment of infrastructure which kills good-paying jobs in the united states. >> chris: we have to leave it there. i want to thank you both so much. congressman hensarling, senator durbin, thank you both for coming in and talking with us. we'll stay on top of the budget negotiations. thank you, gentlemen. >> thank you, chris. >> thank you. >> chris: up next, better than expected news on the economy. the sunday panel weighs in on how excited we should get.

a company-wide memo about the meeting? uh-huh. this is the meeting. we are the company. don't sweat it. i just switched us to sprint, so e-mail, web...on 4g... it's all unlimited. [ cellphone buzzes you just texted me to read the memo? unlimited text too. we really need you on this conference call. rick, it's lyle. rickster? i'm here. there he is! [ male announcer switch to sprint and get unlimited 4g data on a wide range of devices. sprint 4g, it's business without limits. trouble hearing on the phone? only on the now network. visit sprintrelay.com. >> woman: good night, gluttony-- a farewell long awaited. good night, stuffy. >> ( yawning ) >> good night, outdated. >> ( click ) >> good night, old luxury and all of your wares. good night, bygones everywhere. >> ( engine revs ) >> good morning, illumination. good morning, innovation. good morning, unequaled inspiration. >> ( heartbeats )

this week, we received very good news on that front. we learned that the unemployment rate has fallen to its lowest level in nearly two years, as our economy added another 220,000 private sector jobs last month. >> chris: president obama celebrating the encouraging employment numbers from last month. time for the sunday group. chris stirewalt, fox news digital politics editor.

nina easton of "fortune" magazine. kevin madden, republican strategist, mitt romney's spokesman in his presidential campaign. fox news political analyst juan williams. before we get to the panel, we have been trying to fact-check, which is hard to do on sunday mornings. all indications are from the first interview with margie phelps that she claims that the suit by the air force general seeking the disbarment of ten lawyers who are members of the church, she said that claim has been dismissed. we see no indication that it's been dismissed but we will stay on top of that story. all right. let's get to the economy and look at the numbers, chris. unemployment now down to 8.9%. 12 consecutive month of private sector job growth. the participation rate, percentage of people with jobs or looking for work the lowest in 25 years. chris, what does all of that tell you about the strength of the recovery? >> the recovery is still uncertain. and everybody knows that. and people in congress know

that. the president knows that. and as we have this discussion about cuts, and spending and all of these other things, looming large in background is everybody knows that this could go right over the cliff at any time. and this progress could be quickly reversed. it adds a stark anxiety to the discussion in washington about spending. >> chris: we will get to oil in a second, but taking that out of the equation, spike in oil prices, nina, when you look at the numbers, what do you see? >> not to sound negative because it was a bit of positive news this week but it's muted recovery. the participation rate is key. the number of people who are giving up, aren't in the job market. disabili disability rolls are increasing, continue to increase. people are going on disability or going on and staying on government aid. a time when government aid is targeted for cuts. a number of long-term unemployed people. that's what we have to worry about. we have to worry about what it will do to the nation's

psyche, when you have that many people still out of work. six months, a year, even two years and on. i think that is going to be the most difficult nut for any candidate to crack or any president to crack. >> chris: meanwhile, kevin, the unrest -- i said take the oil out of the equation. now let's put it in. unrest in the mideast contributed to spike in oil prices. take a look at that. crude is now $104 a barrel. the highest in more than two years. gallon of gas, has jumped 10% this year. from $3.08 to $3.48 a gallon. kevin, the rule of thumb is for every one-cent increase in the cost of a gallon of gas, that takes a billion dollars of consumer spending away from other areas except for energy prices. >> in some places you look at gas prices go up 3 or 4 cents a day. that's a metric that every single voter, every single

american feels every day when they go to the gas pump. the metrics that we are seeing on the employment side, that is probably not going to be as much as a consolation for those people out of work. then those ones that are going to work, have to pay 3 cents a gallon to fill up their tank. it could ramp down any economic recovery that we see. that is going to be something that the white house is very worried about in the next few months. >> chris: juan, when gas prices spiked the last time, republicans really hammered democrats on it and the idea that their energy policy and the refusal to do a lot of domestic oil production was part of the problem. when you got a weak recovery and rising gas prices, that is a bad combination. >> it is a bad combination but it's directly tied to the middle east, and what is taking place in libya, the threat. most americans understand that. i don't think they see it as

a matter of oil shortage but temporary instability. the question is how long it might last. the good news this week is something that is boosting, boosting at this moment the consumer confidence in the country. and especially boosting the number of private employers who are willing to hire. that's the good news here, you look at manufacturering, you look at construction industries that have been down in the course of this recession. they're up now. this is a signal americans are thinking that better times are coming. most of the economists, the economy forecasters are saying yes, we see growth in this economy. to pick up on what nina was saying, it's slow, not at the rate we like. we know a lot of people are discouraged and that's why unemployment may go up subsequently, because more people get back in the labor market but what we are seeing is indications that the economy is finally on the right path. i don't see any reason they say that. >> chris: another factor we have to throw in all of this, chris; that is, the battle that we just saw in the last segment over federal

spending. some economists, goldman sachs, mark zandy who say you cut federal spending by $61 billion, it will have a negative impact on jobs and hiring. on the other hand, ben bernanke, the fed chairman, was on capitol hill saying it would have a smaller effect. $61 billion in multi-billion dollar economy. >> the best case scenario they laid out in the budget is for anemic growth. any side of growth that comes forward hurts the democrats' argument on cutting spending. as things stabilize, as the economy normalizes, people say -- and the republicans are talking about cutting onon 1/30th. you heard durbin struggle with that. to push back against the cuts is difficult. you're not talking about a huge amount of money. for the president, greater

concern, long-term concern is inflation that could come in and take away the modest sign of recovery if it digs in, because the oil prices and other things. so for the president, he has to deal with deficit spending, entitle reform and other things if he doesn't want to see it eat his lunch. >> you are seeing a classic application of kenseyien economics. there are other economists like john taylor at stanford that says look, the problem is private investment on the sideline, because private investment is scared of higher taxes, uncertainty and squeezed out by government spending. cutting government spending in the long run and the immediate run will help the economy. there is a disagreement. we shouldn't just say it will automatically hurt the economy if you cut spending. the other thing to worry about, don't put on blinders, there could be a debt crisis at some point that will send the economy back to a tail spin so you have to deal with

that issue. >> chris: what a surprise you could find an economyist to back your own political -- [ laughter we have to take a break here, but when we come back, potential candidates begin dipping their toes in the presidential waters. the sunday panel handicaps the likely field and tries to make sense of newt gingrich's non-announcement. kinds of exercise, but basically, i'm a runner. last year. (oof). i had a bum knee that needed surgery. but it got complicated, because i had an old injury. so i wanted a doctor who had done this before. and unitedhealthcare's database helped me find a surgeon. you know you can't have great legs, if you don't have good knees. we're 78,000 people looking out for 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare.

still to come -- for 44 years, she has been providing children with programs to read.

my expectation is by the end of this exploratory process that we'll have an announce. and we'll be in the race. i think it's very daunting but it's also very exciting. >> chris: former speaker of the house newt gingrich getting ever so closer to formally announcing a run for the presidency. and we're back now with the panel. well, you know, one of the few things that a candidate can control is how they get into a presidential race. and i don't think it's an overstatement to say that newt gingrich made a hash of it this week.

some of his aides said he would announce an exploratory committee on thursday and some said he wouldn't. in fact, he announced a web site. chris, what do you make of the non-entry in the race by the non-candidate? >> it could be part of a secret brilliant strategy, but yeah, on the cover it's quite a hash. and not the way you want to do it. unfortunately, for the former speaker, it reinforces a wildly head concern about him in republican circles that he is, as people say, brilliant but undisciplined. i think for gingrich, the problem is going to be going forward he has to demonstrate he has an organization that he will be disciplined, that he will do what is supposed to happen. what you saw this week was how quickly your message gets muddle and how quickly things get confused. >> chris: nina, i think we do all agree, gingrich, whether you like, agree or disagree with him is one of the most brilliant men in american politics but he carries a lot of baggage, personal baggage and professional baggage. how big of a problem is all

of that for him? >> it's a problem. it's funny. i spent time with him for a profile in 2007. and at the time he was the big ideas guy, he wanted to put out the big ideas about reforming healthcare and so on. he was very, by the way, very bipartisan. he would go in the bipartisan crowds and got standing ovati ovations. his idea was put out the big idea and people will recruit me and i'll run. flash forward and he has a much harder edge now, calling barack obama is a socialist. gingrich thinks is a big idea but that's not a big tent idea on his part. the other issue he has in his personal life is a religious conservative leader to me, one marriage too many. he has been married three times and that is a problem. >> chris: all right. meanwhile, on healthcare reform, president obama took a shot at mitt romney this week. take a look at that. >> i agree with mitt romney.

who recently said he is proud on what he accomplished on healthcare in massachusetts and supports giving states the power to determine their own healthcare solutions. he's right. >> chris: last night in new hampshire, romney responded, "our experiment," meaning in massachusetts, "wasn't perfect. some things worked, some didn't. some things i'd change. one thing i would never do usurp the constitutional power of the states with a one-size-fits-all takeover." he called for repeal of healthcare. kevin you were a top advisor to romney and likely will be if he gets in the race. is that his answer to comparison of the obamacare and romney-care? >> that is one part of it. related to what president obama said, i think he has proven he is not a very good judge of what are good ideas and what are bad ideas. most people will tell you it was not a good idea to craft a one size fits all healthcare plan on a federal

level and apply it to all 50 states, with 50 unique healthcare populations. i don't think america agrees to spend $1 trillion at a time we don't vit. governor romney will make all of the cases and explain su suck -- succinctly that he knows what went right and what went wrong. >> chris: it's not the principle, yes, they don't like the federal government versus states but they don't like government getting involved in healthcare and the individual man -- the principal of an individual mandate, government telling people you have to get health insurance. >> there is no doubt that is a challenge. many of the folks that are already looking at the presidential campaign on the republican side attacked governor romney for that. that will continue. i think the most important thing he can do is talk about why he thought this was the right idea for the unique

healthcare population of massachusetts, how he thought it would help reduce the costs and how he thought it would increase access. if you leave it as a unique debate about what he did in massachusetts and what he would do on a federal level and how he wouldn't pursue the one size fits all approach for 50 states, people will recognize he has incredible command of healthcare. he knows what went wrong and what went right and will make him valuable person for debate on republican side. >> chris: juan? >> i think it's a difference without much in the way of discernment to most voters. both men are interested in healthcare reform and healthcare plan. not one size fits all for the nation but romney was in charge of state. it's one size fits all for the state. the problem for romney speaks to the conservative base. gingrich can go out there as the idea man and say i had this idea and i was the one who reclaimed congress after democratic hold for four decades.

the problem with gingrich is lack of discipline, as you were saying. he appeals, though, to the conservative base in some way. with romney, you have to look at the flip-flop on abortion, immigration. a lot of those issues just pop up and people say is this a guy, even though he is a front-runner, that holds a conservative flag in some passionate way against obama? i just want to -- >> i disagree that many folks who are offering absolute analysis about the issue as it relates to the race thinks it's the only issue. i have don't think it is the only issue. the main issue that everyone is asking themselveses who is going to run the country right and get the economy going? that is an argument to be republican electorate or national electorate when that happens. >> chris: i want to -- excuse me. i want to move on to the other candidates. one of the interesting questions this year is who is going to run. let's put up four question marks, four potential candidates.

huckabee, palin, barbour, mitch daniels. who gets in and who stays out? >> the republicans are, what the republicans want is chris christie, now they want -- >> chris: he has made it clear. he says what do i have to do commit suicide? >> take him at his words. >> more than shermanesque in his vows. which republican can do the most convincing chris christie impersonation to win the nomination? >> that's why they're all playing hard to get. >> and gaining weight. >> trying calzone. the problem with daniels on the central issue to the republican base right now which is what the republicans consider to be overweaning federal and state employees, mitch daniels botched it. on the first day when the indiana democrats walked out of the legislature and the house, he offered conciliatory words when they wanted thundering ovation. >> chris: he had taken away

the public employeement right six years ago. >> but it was a p.r. botch and he tried hard in successive days to recover. telling statement that daniels made that was recapitulated to me by an advisor of his. if position in indiana precludes him from running from president, so be it. >> chris: huckabee, palin, barbour, daniels, who gets in and stays out? >> barbour in. i believe signs point to a barbour run. daniels, out. huckabee, palin, i say right now out and out. it will be tempting if the field doesn't get stronger. >> you're missing one. john huntsman is making signs toward a run. >> chris: who is he? i want you to explain. >> by the way, i also have to do my disclaimer. my husband is advisor to romney. hunts is president obama's embass -- huntsman is president obama's advisor and

he is leaving and he might be running. popular governor of utah. >> i'll help you out. i know it. four years ago, you had eight republicans in the race at this time. today you have zero if you eliminate herman king who i don't think has much of a chance. >> why are you eliminating herman king? >> and the reason for this is people don't think obama is beatable. >> oh, c'mon! >> i think four -- >> chris: you think that romney isn't in the race because he's scared of obama? >> what? >> chris: you think mitt romney isn't in the race because he's scared of obama? >> he is in the race to raise his speaking fees and sell books. >> chris: thank you, panel. you know, this is what we invented panel plus for, because we're going to get it straight. don't forget to check out panel plus where the group will pick up with the discussion on the website, foxnewssunday.com. we promise to post the video before noon eastern time. time now for comments you

posted to our blog wallace watch. john ford from missouri sent this -- >> chris: and cc baker wrote us about last week's power players, the men behind the voice of america television show that mocks iran's leaders -- >> chris: please keep your comments coming. you can find us at foxnewssunday.com. up next, our power player of the week. your advertising mail campaign is paying off! business is good! it must be if you're doing all that overnight shipping. that must cost a fortune. it sure does. well, if it doesn't have to get there overnight, you can save a lot with priority mail flat rate envelopes. one flat rate to any state, just $4.95.

that's cool and all... but it ain't my money. i seriously do not care... so, you don't care what anyone says, you want to save this company money! that's exactly what i was saying. hmmm... priority mail flat rate envelopes, just $4.95 only from the postal service. a simpler way to ship.

>> chris: as we said, congress passed and president obama signed a two-week extension the other day to keep the government running, while also cutting $4 billion from the budget. we wanted to find out what that means to a program. here is our power player of the week. as we sit here right now, do you know whether your program is in or out of the federal budget? >> we do not. >> chris: as the head of the program, how does it make you feel? >> it's unsettling time. >> chris: carol rasco is head of the reading is fundamental child literacy program. hours later, she would learn

federal funding for r.i.f., $24.5 million a year has been eliminated. when we sat down with her, she was already preparing for the worst. >> ready access to print material is critical for learning to read well. >> chris: if they don't have that access? >> they will have more marks against them in this battle to learn to read. >> chris: for 44 years, r.i.f. has been providing books and offering literacy programs to children in need. in the inner city, in poor rural areas. on indian reservations. >> national programs, fundamental. brings boys and girls all kind of books. >> chris: it now gives away 15 million books a year to 4 million children. at 17,000 sites across the country. >> i don't go anywhere to talk about r.i.f. that i don't have people come up to me and say i want to show you

the first r.i.f. book i ever got. i want to tell you what it meant in my life. >> chris: back in the '80s, first lady bar -- first lady bush was on the board. but the obama administration decided r.i.f. should be lumped in with other literacy programs. now house republicans have ended federal support. maybe r.i.f. is a perfectly fine program but the government is broke and something has to go. >> it doesn't seem to make sense to cut out the underpinning of building strong literacy skills. >> how many of you like to read? >> chris: r.i.f. gets 75% of the funding from the government. now rasco says she has to push private donors even harder to make up the difference. would you still be able to hand out 15 million books

each year? >> not initially, no. you don't replace $24.5 million overnight. i'll become an even louder advocate for kids and reading. >> chris: what you are saying is one way or another r.i.f. didn't going to disappear? >> no, sir. what is really at stake here is a poor child sitting in a classroom today going to have the skills they need to compete the rest of the way through school. and when they're out trying to find a job. >> chris: for all the talk of waste, fraud and abuse, cutting the budget will mean ending real programs that serve real people. that doesn't mean it's wrong but we better get used to it. that's it for today. have a great week. we'll see you next "fox news sunday." captioned by captioned by